ATTN: Nienne - Spell Resistance vs Penetration

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odin
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ATTN: Nienne - Spell Resistance vs Penetration

Post by odin » 06 Mar 2020, 00:43

Nienne,

Ilmarinen directed this question to you: Why do we roll 1d100 when comparing spell penetration to magic resistance?

Pulling from lines 2379 to 2387 in spell.c

if (victim->query_property("magic resistance")) {
res = (int)victim->query_property("magic resistance");
}

if ((roll_dice(1, 100) + mod) > res) {
return 0;
}
return 1;
}
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nienne
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Re: ATTN: Nienne - Spell Resistance vs Penetration

Post by nienne » 07 Mar 2020, 06:37

Heyo. Not my rationale but I do know the backstory here. It's a relic of the original mud, as a % based (roll 100) since before I was even a player. I requested to convert to d20 (to match anything tabletop) when we moved up to 3e, got no complaints & did all the recoding, & was then vetoed by top admin and had it rolled back to % based.

Zero reason we cannot do this now, and given we are a d20 based system imo should've been done a longass time ago to be compliant with the rest of the game :) Would just mean revising all mud values as they were based off % roll originally.
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ilmarinen
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Re: ATTN: Nienne - Spell Resistance vs Penetration

Post by ilmarinen » 07 Mar 2020, 13:43

Reason we can't do just that is high spread in MR values.

Current d100 allows drow mages with bands to be hittable, at least.

So someone will have to go over all MR sources and work out some resasonable value, or rework how it operates.

I assume It'll be me....
odin
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Re: ATTN: Nienne - Spell Resistance vs Penetration

Post by odin » 07 Mar 2020, 22:50

I mean is it working properly now (as in balance of MR vs Penetration). If so, could just leave it as is for now. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
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ilmarinen
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Re: ATTN: Nienne - Spell Resistance vs Penetration

Post by ilmarinen » 07 Mar 2020, 23:01

odin wrote:
07 Mar 2020, 22:50
I mean is it working properly now (as in balance of MR vs Penetration). If so, could just leave it as is for now. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
It isn't broken... It is just useless... Kinda?.. Mewbe?..
You want to crack and adjust it, consider bands power (tarnished band, black band), drow insane mr, gear bonus and that some mobs have increased mr.
And adjust this stuff... Maybe.
odin
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Re: ATTN: Nienne - Spell Resistance vs Penetration

Post by odin » 07 Mar 2020, 23:13

How about we start by making platinum and gold bands not stack with other gear providing MR?
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nienne
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Re: ATTN: Nienne - Spell Resistance vs Penetration

Post by nienne » 09 Mar 2020, 00:15

At present scaling is still geared to then 100 system so it's not broken, just not very good - too broad a span.

Beware nerfing plat/gold bands as there are a lot of other things in-game that provide "plat band equivalents" (eg several spells, last time I checked). If plat & gold bands are made non-stacking but the spells still function, it's going to leave a huge defensive deficit with the non-casters. You'd need to ensure you get all of these bonuses, or find another alternative.

As a suggestion, but one I've not checked with an actual list; we do have a bit of an overall issue with stacking spell bonuses at this point, both MR and others. Do we need to look at a more general fix to spells in the same way gear works - ie. only taking highest bonus in all cases? This would cut down considerably on several issues, and I'm gonna hazard a guess there's at least a couple spells in the MR boat as well that may help the situation here a little.
odin
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Re: ATTN: Nienne - Spell Resistance vs Penetration

Post by odin » 09 Mar 2020, 00:22

Plat bands stack with all MR providing spells, at least last I looked. What I've done is make them no longer stack with MR providing gear; you get the highest bonus.
kismet
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Re: ATTN: Nienne - Spell Resistance vs Penetration

Post by kismet » 09 Mar 2020, 00:37

odin wrote:
09 Mar 2020, 00:22
Plat bands stack with all MR providing spells, at least last I looked. What I've done is make them no longer stack with MR providing gear; you get the highest bonus.
So as suggested in post about drow (moving it here because it more appropriate): Switch it to let bands stack with permanent MR gear but NOT with MR spells:

Platinum bands/gold rings and permanent gear remain useful to melee classes and others that do not have access to MR spells

Permanent gear remains useful to casters with MR spells (plus they can throw on a ring if they are dispelled).
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nienne
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Re: ATTN: Nienne - Spell Resistance vs Penetration

Post by nienne » 10 Mar 2020, 00:35

This is certainly how it worked at one point with spells (psionic raise resistance, etc) & was deliberately to stop MR getting out of hand, & prevent casters surpassing melee on yet another defensive front - very straight forward then on gear + spell or gear + consumable. Potions are mostly written to "cast" spells for the same reason - stacking prevention of various perks. Not sure when or why it would have been changed, seems counter-intuitive to let the casters run rampant. Good change/reversion imo :)
odin
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Re: ATTN: Nienne - Spell Resistance vs Penetration

Post by odin » 10 Mar 2020, 11:18

I'm certainly down for doing it that way. I think most of the code is still there, just have reactivate it.
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nienne
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Re: ATTN: Nienne - Spell Resistance vs Penetration

Post by nienne » 10 Mar 2020, 23:41

odin wrote:
10 Mar 2020, 11:18
I'm certainly down for doing it that way. I think most of the code is still there, just have reactivate it.
IMO go nuts, if no-one else has any issues. I've always thought it a good idea & why I tried to implement years ago. It's been a solid balance tactic in the past to have consumables pick up a shortfall for non-casters, just takes them a bit more effort to go get it but allows them to remain competitive. And non-stacking is always a good idea, it's becoming even more so with all the extra stuff we're adding in these days.
odin
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Re: ATTN: Nienne - Spell Resistance vs Penetration

Post by odin » 11 Mar 2020, 01:28

Done. Hopefully I didn't break anything.
odin
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Re: ATTN: Nienne - Spell Resistance vs Penetration

Post by odin » 11 Mar 2020, 21:08

Big surprise, I broke something. Good news is I fixed it. MR bands do not stack with spells and give the proper ammount of MR.
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nienne
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Re: ATTN: Nienne - Spell Resistance vs Penetration

Post by nienne » 14 Mar 2020, 10:55

Think it's still borken, seems it doesn't remove MR on band remove. I'd get in to check but RL isn't kind atm so might defer it to those already at work on it :)
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nienne
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Re: ATTN: Nienne - Spell Resistance vs Penetration

Post by nienne » 14 Mar 2020, 11:25

Correction - band now gives nothing on wear, 60 (? max level?) on remove that sticks, and spell equivalents seem to give fairly paultry amounts by comparison (imp armor is 24?). Something a bit wrong... in a big way.
odin
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Re: ATTN: Nienne - Spell Resistance vs Penetration

Post by odin » 14 Mar 2020, 14:05

Fixed the bands. Thought I had already done it.
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