[DONE] Magic Resistance Discussion - Drow

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Should we drop Drow to a Flat 10 MR?

Yes
7
70%
No
3
30%
 
Total votes: 10
odin
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[DONE] Magic Resistance Discussion - Drow

Post by odin » 07 Mar 2020, 23:51

Here's the deal:

In seeking to convert our MR to more Pathfinderesque rules (i.e. CL + penetration + 1d20 vs resistance), I've eliminated one of the major ways player can stack insane MR. Namely, gold, platinum, and obsidian bands will no longer stack with other gear. That leaves drow as the only other member of the insane MR group.

Drow currently gain 58 MR at max level (10+48), and I'll note they are only a 2LA race. No other race receives as big of a bump to MR (most are 10 flat). I'll also point out that drow already get +2 positive stats, three at-will innate spells, which in my opinion is good enough for a LA2 racee.

However, before I go all crazy, I'm asking for community input, with a caveat. I am asking you to ignore the fact that your personal ox may be gored. I know this is difficult, but I'm asking you to consider for game balance and sanity if nerfing this feature makes sense.
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chernobog
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Re: Magic Resistance Discussion - Drow

Post by chernobog » 08 Mar 2020, 01:45

I wasn't aware the drow MR bonus scaled with level. That's way too strong for just 2 LA.
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fluffy
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Re: Magic Resistance Discussion - Drow

Post by fluffy » 08 Mar 2020, 03:29

Offers a bat to swing at them.
uriel
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Re: Magic Resistance Discussion - Drow

Post by uriel » 08 Mar 2020, 07:59

Nerfbat plz - 58 MR is crazy town.
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chernobog
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Re: Magic Resistance Discussion - Drow

Post by chernobog » 08 Mar 2020, 11:23

If the drow MR is set to a flat 10, I think that would put them in line with tieflings and such. It might be appropriate lowering them to 1 LA with the change.

It would be nice to hear some opposing rationale for leaving the drow as is, to have a contrast. I'm unable to play devil's advocate here.
odin
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Re: Magic Resistance Discussion - Drow

Post by odin » 08 Mar 2020, 15:13

That's a good point about dropping them to an LA1 race, we will definately have to discuss it later.
uriel
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Re: Magic Resistance Discussion - Drow

Post by uriel » 08 Mar 2020, 17:38

One thing i just want to throw out here --

Magic Resistance is a concept from 2nd edition and operates on a d100 basis.

Spell Resistance is a concept from 3/3.5 edition/pathfinder and operates on a d20 basis.

Previously, we have been operating on MR as d100, but if we migrate to a SR with a d20 basis, we should be very careful that we are not conflating d100 bonuses (often like +50, i.e. +50%) with d20 bonuses to SR (like a +1 or +2).
odin
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Re: Magic Resistance Discussion - Drow

Post by odin » 08 Mar 2020, 17:54

We're effectively already running a d20 system, just using a d100 for the roll.
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fluffy
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Re: Magic Resistance Discussion - Drow

Post by fluffy » 08 Mar 2020, 23:30

I'm voting yes largely because I can't think of any reason not to - it seems unbalanced, and even though I don't perfectly understand how the resistance system works, I see 58 and 10 as pretty different numbers. I have called for the nerfing of deva and shades, as well, simply because I believe that balance is important to the game. Since I don't understand the math behind the balance behind this game, most of my opinions is based on what others have said, so if someone else has a reason why they should not be moved down to 10, I'd like to hear it.
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nienne
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Re: Magic Resistance Discussion - Drow

Post by nienne » 09 Mar 2020, 00:18

fluffy wrote:
08 Mar 2020, 23:30
I'm voting yes largely because I can't think of any reason not to - it seems unbalanced, and even though I don't perfectly understand how the resistance system works, I see 58 and 10 as pretty different numbers. I have called for the nerfing of deva and shades, as well, simply because I believe that balance is important to the game. Since I don't understand the math behind the balance behind this game, most of my opinions is based on what others have said, so if someone else has a reason why they should not be moved down to 10, I'd like to hear it.
Per Chernobog, drow/shade/deva are our real imbalance characters. Drow, it's pretty much the MR - if you nerf that the rest of their perks aren't drastic for a 3LA & would be more reasonable. But you'll either need to make the other 3LA races more reasonable as well, or nerf the LA on drow, cuz that's really what the level adjustment was buying there.

FYI you will need to look at spells if you're removing the stacking from plat/etc bands. Last I checked (which may have changed) plat bands were a non-caster equivalent to several MR spells (I think there's at least a psion one). I'd hate to see the non-casters even more in the lurch if they don't have a consumable but the spells continue to stack. Ofc if they've been changed since, please disregard :)
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nienne
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Re: Magic Resistance Discussion - Drow

Post by nienne » 09 Mar 2020, 00:21

chernobog wrote:
08 Mar 2020, 01:45
I wasn't aware the drow MR bonus scaled with level. That's way too strong for just 2 LA.
Drow are 3LA. Without the MR they probably look more like 2 - and should probably be dropped to such unless someone's taking a nerfbat to the shades & devas as well, because without the MR they're vastly inferior.
odin
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Re: Magic Resistance Discussion - Drow

Post by odin » 09 Mar 2020, 00:23

Drow are currently 2LA. I'm comfortable dropping them to 1 with the MR nerf.
kismet
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Re: Magic Resistance Discussion - Drow

Post by kismet » 09 Mar 2020, 00:29

nienne wrote:
09 Mar 2020, 00:18
FYI you will need to look at spells if you're removing the stacking from plat/etc bands. Last I checked (which may have changed) plat bands were a non-caster equivalent to several MR spells (I think there's at least a psion one). I'd hate to see the non-casters even more in the lurch if they don't have a consumable but the spells continue to stack. Ofc if they've been changed since, please disregard
Oh, this is a good point! Maybe a better option would be to make magic resistance spells not stack with platinum bands if at all possible, while still allowing platinum bands to stack with permanent items. The bands can check if there is a spell active and refuse to be worn, perhaps? And vice versa. So, a warlock, for instance, could have permanent item + casters lament OR permanent item + platinum band, but not caster's lament and platinum band at the same time.
odin
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Re: Magic Resistance Discussion - Drow

Post by odin » 09 Mar 2020, 00:37

Not a terrible idea, but I'd point out that in TT casters are best at resisting magic, whereas melee are best at resisting melee (high AH).
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chernobog
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Re: Magic Resistance Discussion - Drow

Post by chernobog » 09 Mar 2020, 00:42

That doesn't quite translate to sg, since casters are also the best at avoiding melee damage through iron body, blink type spells, and waves of fodder
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ilmarinen
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Re: Magic Resistance Discussion - Drow

Post by ilmarinen » 09 Mar 2020, 01:18

I voted no because cat paws and cant re-vote.
odin
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Re: Magic Resistance Discussion - Drow

Post by odin » 09 Mar 2020, 21:13

I suppose my main problem with allowing bands to stack with normal MR gear and not spells is that it's exactly the opposite of how all of our bonuses work. I suppose I could rationalize it as a spell equivalent since the item vapes after long enough.
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nienne
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Re: Magic Resistance Discussion - Drow

Post by nienne » 10 Mar 2020, 00:37

odin wrote:
09 Mar 2020, 00:23
Drow are currently 2LA. I'm comfortable dropping them to 1 with the MR nerf.
Even this seems feasible, given the calibre of the other LA races these days - LA1 would work fine. That, or switch our drow to the "drow nobility" standard (ref: pathfinder) so they actually have some non-crap spells, that'd probably justify a LA2.

Either way whoever has website access may want to update it in this case then, as it still suggests drow are LA3.
xantheous
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Re: Magic Resistance Discussion - Drow

Post by xantheous » 21 Mar 2020, 12:35

I always felt that it was keeping in with the lore of D&D for drow to have such a high MR, i understand its a big perk but in theory it should be a counterbalance to them being hunted and killed on sight by most races...not that actually happens but just the way i felt the spirit of the lore was carried out.
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